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From: nicmar12/16/2011 11:40:56 AM
1 Recommendation   of 5181
 
Samsung drops iPhone 4S 3G patent attack

Chris Davies, Dec 16th 2011 Discuss [0]

Samsung has reportedly abandoned attempts to hound the iPhone 4S with 3G patents it holds, conceding that Apple is covered for their use of the cellular technology through their use of Qualcomm chipsets. The decision was revealed in the latest batch of legal sniping at the Mannheim Regional Court in Germany this morning, patent expert Florian Mueller reports, though Samsung also filed against Apple over a further four patents while the Cupertino company fired back with six suits of its own.

Samsung’s attempted use of 3G patents to cow Apple has been a particularly controversial strategy. Back in September, Apple accused its rival of manipulating open telecom standards, arguing that Samsung had in effect cheated in its handling of the 3G ratifications by failing to disclose that it held patents in certain technologies while simultaneously pushing for them to be included in the final standards.

In fact, Apple alleged, Samsung specifically attempted to change its licensing agreement with Qualcomm – which produces 3G modems such as those found inside the iPhone 4S – to exclude Apple from coverage. That strategy looks to have collapsed, by Samsung’s own admission, with Apple falling under Qualcomm’s umbrella license.

It’s unclear whether Samsung’s decision will rescue it from investigation by the European Commission over alleged misuse of FRAND (fair, reasonable and non-discriminatory) patent licensing. Apple claimed Samsung was seeking “outrageous” licensing terms not in keeping with FRAND requirements.

However, two of the four new patents Samsung has sued Apple over today are FRAND patents – the others are unencumbered ones – though details of what exactly they cover have not been revealed.

http://www.slashgear.com/samsung-drops-iphone-4s-3g-patent-attack-16202855/

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From: nicmar12/16/2011 12:13:36 PM
   of 5181
 
No IDCC cafc decision today.

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To: nicmar who wrote (5127)12/16/2011 1:06:31 PM
From: slacker711
   of 5181
 
but I've always wondered where IDCC would be going perchance IDCC took a hit with the cafc decision (its possible) and since LG decided not to renew, why would sammy feel they should be one of the only majors to be paying licensing fees?


Thinking about it, IDCC will have two shots to increase the odds of licensing Samsung. The first would be a CAFC win (and presumably subsequent Nokia licensing) and the second would be a win in the USITC trial that they began in July. Absent wins in one of those two cases, it is hard to see that Samsung will see things much differently than LG did this year. No company likes to pay royalties but I think it becomes much tougher to justify the decision when you see so much of the industry manage to either avoid paying royalties or pay a nominal rate (Apple).


Slacker

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To: slacker711 who wrote (5130)12/16/2011 1:19:53 PM
From: nicmar
   of 5181
 
Agree slacker and that senario (possible pending non renewals) is a definite posibility when taking on an additional investment with IDCC. Some will not accept the Apple agreement saying there's more to the agreement, such as a volume kicker or no LTE patent coverage.

I believe it is what it is and Apple snuckered IDCC for the promotional benefit IDCC thought they had with listing Apple as a licencee, when in reality, I believe the Apple license has had a detrimental effect in licensing the other major companies.

Just because Merritt says he's happy with the Apple deal doesn't make it a good deal as what does one believe Merritt would say? "Dang!!, I really botched this one, big time." mo.. nic

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To: nicmar who wrote (5123)12/16/2011 6:50:25 PM
From: CB02SD
1 Recommendation   of 5181
 
Nicmar, Non news releases, sure. Rumors, sure. Press releases from questionable resources, sure. And let’s make sure to include various investment boards as well. Cry wolf syndrome both good and bad until everyone is just numb. And one could also mention reasons for these, ranging from innocent to, I suppose out right manipulation. However 65.84 percent are held by institutional investors. Let go back and mix in the 14.8, as of last release of short investors. That leaves 20 percent left for the common longs or the float or the traders, anywhere from day on up. If a person could figure out what the traders are buying/selling by volume you may find out, Longs or individual investors if you wish are the minority in all this. Sure seems like a lot of pumping and dumping and questionable releases to try and shake those loose. Now the momentum players are a different group that can make a difference, however I’m not going to include them as a separate group, nor the hedge fund players or the option players as the point was to keep this a simple post. The longs, which I am one have no play in here, we hold. Were just sitting in the stands watch the game play out. To your point that this company will go lower without a catalyst could very well be true but it will be the other groups causing the issue and controlling the game. Longs are just holding until there is a reason to sell. Nothing to do until the company explains what is going to be happening going forward.

JMO

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To: CB02SD who wrote (5132)12/16/2011 10:50:58 PM
From: nicmar
   of 5181
 
CB. Points well taken. I suppose I fit the same category as you being a long term holder for many years other than a futile attempt at options that cost me a few thousand on overzealously purchasing dec calls. I suppose the only positive in the calls is the tax write off. Lesson learned, sale or no sale. mo. .. nic

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To: nicmar who wrote (5133)12/17/2011 2:45:16 AM
From: CB02SD
   of 5181
 
Nicmar, I rarely play options myself, so not the person to say anything good or bad. However as you mentioned, lesson learned, most likely a different lesson had they come in. They have their place, debatable if this is the best company too place them with. The long pauses between action being a negative for that. Then again that should be judged by the people who use.

If you have been a longterm holder than you have already received at least a partial win. Up 800 percent for the last decade.

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To: CB02SD who wrote (5134)12/17/2011 11:57:46 AM
From: nicmar
   of 5181
 
CB. Basically, I would like to see a final resolution as to whether IDCC will be sold or remain some form of an independent entity because it will free up some funds that I would love to invest in other depressed stocks. IDCC has a habit of keeping investors overloaded with stock in the company as there's always the promise of the years long resolution with nokia or some other infringement law suit. Addictive, IDCC is, but ya gotta love the process and stay with it. Oh well, just musing CB. mo.. nic

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To: nicmar who wrote (5135)12/17/2011 2:05:50 PM
From: CB02SD
   of 5181
 
Nicmar, Yes, absolutely agree with your “basically”. One always prefers to have a charity with their investment along with a solid footing in where the company is going. This S/A is a complete unknown. i.e. are they going to sell out, are they going to merge, are they going private, is everything going to back to what was, and so on .

As to overloading on this one due to potential positives in play. Sure, over the last 10 years or so it’s been the driving force. What could be. From Baby Qcom, to the company bragging on the need for a bigger calculator and hockey sticks ,essential patents {they believe they have} and so on was all based on what could be. The potential of getting paid on all that the company claimed infringed at the proper rate for the I/P.

But it does take two to tango, and of our selected dance partners we courted to dance, well they have a different view as to our worthiness. I guess were more of a wall flower in that regard, in some cases anyway.

Nokia, can you believe it is still going on with them, Mot, guess was a free pass, unknown reason, LG to me was more of a 5 year lump sum payout vs. a license based off any sales/ or past sales. Best to avoid yet another court case. Didn’t follow sales and once the yearly payments were complete. No LG. Sure you can mention they may have been in talks, a person could and should mention be been in talks with everybody, and if not why not, in any event the talks failed and off to court we went. Think it was 10/3 we added them in with the others from the latest. Then there is Apple, BTW I’m a long time apple shareholder, I have no idea with all the sales they have that Idcc is getting what they are, wait a minute here, to be fair IDCC was having some license issues / revenue issues at the time and possibly sweetheart deal was made, I suppose, and if so you get what you can get.

I guess on the overall I’m saying all the talk with the potential has a huge disconnect with the reality. It is surprising they did as well as they have in regarding to S/P considering the court issues and delays.

Or perhaps another way to view under the current, the blue sky talked about is in reality a dark and cloudy view without sign of any solid footing. Be that as it may, there really is potential, and the past ten years has not been bad, but they do need a few breaks in the courts to go from here. 4G cannot play out like 3. That is if there isn’t a outright sale.

JMO

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To: CB02SD who wrote (5136)12/18/2011 7:00:53 PM
From: nicmar
   of 5181
 
A few things to consider.

1. IDCC gets bought out for $80 plus which relates to nortel.. $100. Personally, I can't see IDCC selling out for less than nortel as bankrupt nortel didn't have ongoing r&d to go along with the sale. If IDCC can't get $120, then no sale, yet can IDCC get an initial bid for $60?

2. IDCC hooks up with another company that has some expertise with licensing. Even WI-lan has a license with nokia and apple.

3. IDCC goes back to business as usual. Hopefully with a plan that has the possibility of licensing the major telecom companies.

4. IDCC loses the cafc. No sale and IDCC drops SA. Sammy decides to non renew. eps plummets and goes to 10 supporting a S/P in the TEENS.

Best to take option 1, be it $60 or $120. Confusion abounds for lack of company information or guidance. mo.. nic

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