Coffee Shop | Robert Zimmerman, Bob Dylan, Dylan


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To: SIer formerly known as Joe B. who wrote (2120)6/12/2003 1:23:21 PM
From: no name chump   of 2653
 
Laid back?

I was expecting you to say a weird collection of New York's finest as I experienced in some Central Park concerts.

No drag queens?

len

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To: no name chump who wrote (2121)6/12/2003 1:25:40 PM
From: SIer formerly known as Joe B.   of 2653
 
No drag queens?

Nothing even close, I saw Dylan alumnist David Bromberg at the same place a few months ago, he attracted a stranger crowd than Lou Reed by a pretty good margin.

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To: no name chump who wrote (2119)6/12/2003 2:03:15 PM
From: SIer formerly known as Joe B.   of 2653
 
Homer Over Bob?
ananova.com 

Homer Simpson looks likely to beat Abraham Lincoln to the title of the greatest ever American.



The head of the Simpsons clan has taken almost a fifth of the votes in an internet poll.

The 16th president of the US managed just over 16%.

The poll has been held to tie in with a BBC2 debate called What The World Thinks of America to be screened on Tuesday at 9pm.

Civil rights leader Martin Luther King is in third position, ahead of former presidents such as George Washington.

Other quirky choices to have made the top ten include Mr T, famed for his role in TV's The A Team, and Bob Dylan.

The 90-minute debate will be presented by BBC political editor Andrew Marr and will look at opinions about the US's position in the world.

It will bring together national broadcasters from around the world in a live satellite link-up.

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To: SIer formerly known as Joe B. who wrote (2123)6/12/2003 10:32:14 PM
From: Lost1   of 2653
 
Doh!

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To: SIer formerly known as Joe B. who wrote (2123)6/14/2003 5:17:37 PM
From: no name chump   of 2653
 
We are doomed!

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To: no name chump who wrote (2125)6/14/2003 5:50:12 PM
From: SIer formerly known as Joe B.   of 2653
 
Hey, Bob did finished ahead of Ned Flanders and Krusty.

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To: SIer formerly known as Joe B. who wrote (2126)6/14/2003 6:23:06 PM
From: no name chump   of 2653
 
lol

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To: no name chump who wrote (2127)6/14/2003 6:36:23 PM
From: SIer formerly known as Joe B.   of 2653
 
From Dylan Pool discussion...


I'm going to New York next weekend. I've never been there before. I'm stayign with a friend in Manhattan. In 3 days...what are the things I HAVE to do?

Check out the last reply on the bottom:

pool.dylantree.com 

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To: SIer formerly known as Joe B. who wrote (2128)7/8/2003 1:42:24 PM
From: JakeStraw   of 2653
 
Japanese book inspiration for Dylan?
Lyrics on 'Love and Theft' match words from Japanese author
Tuesday, July 8, 2003 Posted: 1:12 PM EDT (1712 GMT)
cnn.com 

TOKYO, Japan (AP) -- A Japanese writer said Tuesday he was flattered to learn that passages from one of his books apparently found their way into Bob Dylan's lyrics.

In the song "Floater" from his 2001 album, "Love and Theft," Dylan croons: "My old man, he's like some feudal lord, got more lives than a cat." He also sings, "I'm not quite as cool or forgiving as I sound" and then, "Sometimes somebody wants you to give something up, And tears or not, it's too much to ask."

On page 6 of Junichi Saga's book "Confessions of a Yakuza," the protagonist recalls: "My old man would sit there like a feudal lord." Later, he says: "I'm not as cool or forgiving as I might have sounded." On page 182, he says: "Tears or not, though, that was too much to ask."

It was unclear if Dylan intentionally lifted any material. Dylan's publicist in New York had no immediate comment Tuesday.

A month ago, Saga, a 62-year-old physician who has written 15 books, had no more than a vague idea of the legendary singer-songwriter.

"I had heard his name before, but I wasn't familiar with his music," Saga said in a telephone interview from his home in Tsuchiura. "I'm ecstatic that such an influential singer was inspired by what I wrote."

Saga, whose 1989 book "Confessions of a Yakuza" appeared in English in 1991, said he first heard about the similarities between his work and Dylan's about a month ago from a reporter from The Wall Street Journal, which first reported the story Tuesday.

The practitioner of Chinese medicine said the revelation was surprising.

"My book hasn't even sold that well, and it's out of print in Japan," said Saga. He estimates the book, which was also translated into German, French and Portuguese, earned him about 1 million yen, or $8,475.

Sprinkling references

The references from Saga's work are on Dylan's 2001 CD, "Love and Theft."
"Confessions" details the story of Eiji Ijichi, a former gangster whose life of crime, gambling and prostitution in pre-World War II Japan was also full of loneliness and hardship. Ijichi shared his memories with Saga before dying of cancer.

"It's about a different Japan than the one we see nowadays. This was a man who lived a hard life," Saga said.

In May, dylanchords.com,  a Web site devoted to Dylan's chords and lyrics, posted a note from Chris Johnson, a resident of Kitakyushu, located on Japan's southernmost main island. Saga confirmed that the alleged passages on the site come from his book.

Dylan, 62, has been known to sprinkle references to literature, art and other sources in his songs. His edgy and sarcastic protest songs captured the mood of America's disenfranchised youth during the early years of the Vietnam War and the civil-rights struggles.

Saga said he harbors no ill feelings toward Dylan.

He has told his publisher, Tokyo-based Kodansha International, that while he would prefer to be credited as a source for Dylan's songs, he has "absolutely no plans to sue." There are no plans for a reprinted edition, either.

"Why would I sue? To take something that made people around the world happy and try to exploit it for money -- that's poverty," Saga said.

Two weeks ago, Saga, who prefers classical music, bought his first Dylan CD, "The Best of Bob Dylan."

"I remembered that I had heard 'Blowing in the Wind' in the 1960s on the radio," he said, adding that he has come to admire Dylan's deep, sobering lyrics.

"This shows that people in other countries can relate to the harsh realities of prewar Japan, which was a poor, struggling nation," he said. "I'm just happy someone read my book and liked it."

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To: no name chump who wrote (2127)7/8/2003 5:50:45 PM
From: HG   of 2653
 
Did Bob Dylan Lift
Lines From Dr. Saga?

online.wsj.com 

Don't Think Twice, It's All Right
Is the View of This Japanese Writer
As a 62-year-old physician and writer in a small town north of Tokyo, Junichi Saga knows almost nothing about 62-year-old Bob Dylan.

"Bob Dylan is a very famous American country singer, yes?" asks Dr. Saga. "I'm not familiar with these things."

Mr. Dylan, on the other hand, would seem to be quite familiar with Dr. Saga's work. On the legendary singer-songwriter's most recent studio album, "Love and Theft," he appears to have lifted about a dozen passages from Dr. Saga's book, "Confessions of a Yakuza."



By Jonathan Eig in Chicago and Sebastian Moffett in Tsuchiura, Japan



"I'm not quite as cool or forgiving as I sound," sings Mr. Dylan on the song "Floater," from his 2001 album. "I'm not as cool or as forgiving as I might have sounded," writes Dr. Saga on page 158 of his oral history of a Japanese gangster, which was published to little acclaim or profit more than a decade before the release of Mr. Dylan's album. To date, Dr. Saga says he has earned about $8,500 from his book.

Doris Kearns Goodwin and the late Stephen Ambrose, among others, have gotten in some trouble in recent years for doing similar things. But Dr. Saga, unlike a good many other imitated authors, isn't angry. He's delighted.


"Please say hello to Bob Dylan for me because I am very flattered and very happy to hear this news," the writer says. He is hoping that Mr. Dylan's fans might go out and buy the book. "Confessions" has sold only about 25,000 copies in English and fewer still in Japanese. Indeed, the Japanese edition is out of print.

Mr. Dylan's manager, Jeff Rosen, said Mr. Dylan couldn't be reached for comment. "As far as I know," Mr. Rosen said, "Mr. Dylan's work is original." The liner notes for "Love and Theft" list Mr. Dylan as the sole author of the 12 songs on the album.

The songwriter has borrowed material before. He often makes passing references to the Bible or to works of literature in his songs. On "Love and Theft," he briefly quotes a passage from "The Great Gatsby." As an aspiring artist, Mr. Dylan, né Zimmerman, is often said to have taken his name from the late Welsh poet, Dylan Thomas, though Mr. Dylan has sometimes denied that.

He's like "some very imaginative sponge," says Christopher Ricks, a professor of humanities at Boston University, who has lectured on Mr. Dylan's works. Usually, says Mr. Ricks, Mr. Dylan's sponging is a healthy part of the creative process. The songwriter takes a few words, twists them, changes their context, and produces an entirely new work of art.

But Mr. Ricks says he was surprised by the extent to which Mr. Dylan seems to have borrowed from "Confessions of a Yakuza" on his latest album. "No one of these instances was very telling," he says. "But when you put together the whole string of them, it's quite striking."

No one was more surprised than Dr. Saga. The internist, writer and painter lives a life of prosperous, suburban tranquility in Tsuchiura, a small city of 134,000 people north of Tokyo. His home and clinic are set in a dense garden with stone footpaths.

This is where he wrote "Confessions," which is based on the testimony of one of his patients, a retired gangster named Eiji Ijichi. The story is set in pre-World War II Japan. Men and women in his book live hard, rootless lives, filled with gambling, prostitution and violence. The book, Dr. Saga says, is about people who find love despite bad luck and bitter lives. "The two themes are love and the life of an outlaw -- in other words love and theft," he says.


After learning from a reporter that some of his prose had turned up on Mr. Dylan's album, Dr. Saga, who usually favors opera, bought a copy of the CD. "I like this album," he says. "His lines flow from one image to the next and don't always make sense. But they have a great atmosphere."

He says he's pleased that Mr. Dylan read his book -- if, indeed, he did -- and chose to adapt some of the language to fit his songs. Dr. Saga says he has no intention of suing. "I don't want this to become a bad thing," he says. But he would like to see Mr. Dylan acknowledge his source -- perhaps with a note in future editions of the liner notes. "That would be very honorable," the author says.

The similarities between the album and the book were first spotted by an American living in Japan. He recently submitted a comparison of the two works to a Web site devoted to Mr. Dylan's music. Soon after the comparison was posted, "Confessions of a Yakuza" jumped more than 20,000 places, to about 45,000 -- on the Amazon.com list of best-selling books. But Dr. Saga's publisher, Kodansha International, with offices in Tokyo, New York and London, says it's too soon to tell whether the controversy will significantly boost sales.

"I guess we should print the next edition with Bob Dylan's picture on the cover," says Stephen Shaw, editorial director for Kodansha and the editor of "Confessions." Absent a photo, Mr. Shaw says, the publisher would at least like to have a blurb from Mr. Dylan for the book's jacket.

Mr. Shaw says he and other members of the staff at Kodansha were surprised that Mr. Dylan made so little effort to change lines appearing in the book. "It struck me as a little bit lazy," he says. But he doesn't want to make too much of a fuss. "We're flattered as hell, let's face it," Mr. Shaw says.

Mr. Dylan's apparent muse might not have been discovered were it not for Chris Johnson, a Minnesota native and Dylan fan who happened upon a copy of "Confessions" while browsing in a bookstore in Fukuoka. He knew little about Japan's seamy side and was glad to find a book on the subject.

On the first page, Mr. Johnson read the following line: "My old man would sit there like a feudal lord...." It reminded him instantly of a lyric from the Dylan song "Floater": "My old man, he's like some feudal lord."

"I've probably listened to that album at least a hundred times, so the matching phrases just jumped right out at me," says Mr. Johnson, a 29-year-old English teacher in Kitakyushu. "They may as well have been printed in red ink."

He began searching for more phrases from the recording as he read the book, folding down pages as he found them. By the time he had finished the book, he had folded a dozen pages.

Mr. Dylan didn't choose the most poetic or most powerful lines from the book, Mr. Johnson says. He appears at times to have clipped phrases almost randomly. Mr. Johnson has given a lot of thought to the process by which Mr. Dylan wrote his lyrics. He imagines the singer sitting in a hotel in Japan, where he has often appeared over the years, and browsing through "Confessions" as he worked on a new batch of tunes, using lines from the book as kindling for his imagination.

"I kind of wondered if he had done a lot of that before on other albums," says Mr. Johnson. "But if he'd been doing this all along, somebody would have caught him a long time ago."

Write to Jonathan Eig at jonathan.eig@wsj.com and Sebastian Moffett at sebastian.moffett@wsj.com


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"CONFESSIONS OF A YAKUZA" BY JUNICHI SAGA* "LOVE AND THEFT" BY BOB DYLAN**
"My old man would sit there like a feudal lord…" ("Confessions of a Yakuza," page 6) "My old man, he's like some feudal lord/Got more lives than a cat" ("Floater")
"If it bothers you so much," she'd say, " why don't you just shove off?" ("Confessions," page 9) "Juliet said back to Romeo, 'Why don't you just shove off/If it bothers you so much?'" ("Floater")
"My mother...was the daughter of a wealthy farmer...(she) died when I was eleven...I heard that my father was a traveling salesman who called at the house regularly, but I never met him. (My uncle) was a nice man, I won't forget him...After my mother died, I decided it'd be best to go and try my luck there." ("Confessions," pages 57-58) "My mother was a daughter of a wealthy farmer/My father was a traveling salesman, I never met him/When my mother died, my uncle took me in -- he ran a funeral parlor/He did a lot of nice things for me and I won't forget him" ("Po' Boy")
"Break the roof in!" he yelled…. (He) splashed kerosene over the floor and led a fuse from it outside." ("Confessions," page 63) "Yes, I'm leaving in the morning just as soon as the dark clouds lift/Gonna break the roof in -- set fire to the place as a parting gift" ("Summer Days")
"I won't come anymore if it bothers you." ("Confessions," page 139) "Some things are too terrible to be true/I won't come here no more if it bothers you" ("Honest With Me")
"D'you think I could call myself a yakuza if I couldn't stand up to some old businessman?" ("Confessions," page 141) "The fog is so thick that you can't even spy the land/What good are you anyway, if you can't stand up to some old businessman?" ("Summer Days")
" ...I heard he caused some kind of trouble that put him on bad terms with the younger men.… A good bookie makes all the difference in a gambling joint-- it's up to him whether a session comes alive or falls flat.… But even kicking him out wasn't as easy as that.… So I decided to wait a while and see how it worked out.… But age doesn't matter in that business.... Age by itself just doesn't carry any weight. ("Confessions," pages 153- 155) "The old men 'round here, sometimes they get on/Bad terms with the younger men, But old, young , age don't carry weight/It doesn't matter in the end" ("Floater") "Things come alive or they fall flat" ("Floater") "It's not always easy kicking someone out/Gotta wait a while - it can be an unpleasant task" ("Floater")
"Actually, though, I'm not as cool or forgiving as I might have sounded." ("Confessions," page 158) "I'm not quite as cool or forgiving as I sound/I've seen enough heartaches and strife" ("Floater")
"Tears or not, though, that was too much to ask…." ("Confessions," page 182) "Sometimes somebody wants you to give something up/And tears or not, it's too much to ask ("Floater")
"Just because she was in the same house didn't mean we were living together as man and wife...I don't know how it looked to other people, but I never even slept with her--not once." ("Confessions," page 208) "Samantha Brown lived in my house for about four or five months/Don't know how it looked to other people/I never slept with her even once" ("Lonsesome Day Blues")
"They were big, those trees--a good four feet across the trunk…." ("Confessions, page 241) "There's a new grove of trees on the outskirts of town/The old one is long gone/Timber two-foot six across/Burns with the bark still on" ("Floater")
"There was nothing sentimental about him--it didn't bother him at all that some of his pals had been killed. ("Confessions," page 243) "My captain, he's decorated -- he's well schooled and he's skilled/He's not sentimental -- don't bother him at all/How many of his pals have been killed" ("Lonesome Day Blues")

*Quotations and page numbers come from the English paperback edition of "Confessions of a Yakuza," published by Kodansha in 1995. The Japanese edition was originally published in 1989. **Lyrics from "Love and Theft" are quoted from www.bobdylan.com, a Web site maintained by Columbia records.

Updated July 8, 2003 12:58 a.m.

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