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To: one_less who wrote (11004)10/23/1998 10:10:00 PM
From: dougjn
   of 67254
 
Can you guess how much I or the rest of the US gives a sh*t about an Israeli backlash?

Who do they think they are?? How important do they think they are to the US security interests??

I will admit that there is an over wheening US news interst in the subject. But I think if forced to its origins, it could get a bit embarassing for the journalists.

Doug

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To: dougjn who wrote (11002)10/23/1998 10:10:00 PM
From: one_less
   of 67254
 
Divided loyalties, "friendly nation?" I have several Palestinian American friends. Your original contention was on the money. This is America, those things don't count when it is a question of High Treason. It's a sensitive issue. I have to admire you for your objectivity and willingness to speak out.

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To: dougjn who wrote (10996)10/23/1998 10:23:00 PM
From: Dwight E. Karlsen
   of 67254
 
Secondly, re: why aren't we celebrating the peace accord. I agree with you. I guess I'm taking it for granted, in terms of what to bitch about on this forum. But as far as Clinton's achievements go, I think it's a biggie. He deserves much credit. And I think he's getting it. He deserves it.

Does Arafat speak for the terrorist group Hamas? Has Hamas signed off on this? Sure, I think in the past the PLO has been involved with terrorism, but has not for a long time, certainly not officially. But Hamas and others periodically blow up a bus, typically in some part of Jerusalem.

I guess the reason I'm not "celebrating", is because this "peace accord" doesn't mean that we won't be opening our newspapers in two months to find another bus full of people has been blown up.

Ah yes, and then there was the "Dayton Peace Accords", which heralded a new peaceful era in Bosnia, signed off by the good Mr. Slobodnik (sp?). Except that only a couple years, we're again frantically trying to get the good Mr. Slobodnik to stop exterminating specific ethnic groups inside his country. It's like, "okay, I won't kill those people. (but I will kill those other people...hehehe...these Americans are such suckers for a good show).

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To: dougjn who wrote (11006)10/23/1998 10:25:00 PM
From: one_less
   of 67254
 
<<Can you guess how much I or the rest of the US gives a sh*t about an Israeli backlash?>>

Yes, I don't think the US has the ability to deal with an Israeli backlash, for geo-political and cultural reasons.

Jews established themselves during the civil rights period as the rising star victims of American oppression against minorities. The US Parented the establishment of the Nation of Israel and supported it to long term success. The two cultures are inseperably entwined. Israel is taking off with unprecidented success. There are personal, cultural, and religious dependencies. It really appears to be a Parent, Child relationship, typical of most. It is acceptable for the one in the child role to have some screw ups during its development but Parents aren't supposed to be repremanded or punished at the hands of a child.

So,
1) The US could not deal with the backlash of being accused of mistreating the oppressed minority (still a valid Icon)
2) The two nations are not ready for the role switch.

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To: Dwight E. Karlsen who wrote (11008)10/23/1998 10:26:00 PM
From: dougjn
   of 67254
 
I found this so inarticulate as to be, frankly, incomprehensible:

Ah yes, and then there was the "Dayton Peace Accords", which heralded a new
peaceful era in Bosnia, signed off by the good Mr. Slobodnik (sp?). Except that only
a couple years, we're again frantically trying to get the good Mr. Slobodnik to stop
exterminating specific ethnic groups inside his country. It's like, "okay, I won't kill
those people. (but I will kill those other people...hehehe...these Americans are such
suckers for a good show).


Doug

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To: one_less who wrote (11009)10/23/1998 10:31:00 PM
From: dougjn
   of 67254
 
No one outside perhaps (and then I'm not sure) of a few Jewish precincts would agree with that characterization.

The US is quite confident of what it stands for, and does not depend upon Jewish support to sustain that belief (although we are quite used to Jewish moral leadership, in the last 50 years.)

Doug

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To: dougjn who wrote (11010)10/23/1998 10:33:00 PM
From: one_less
   of 67254
 
I understood the point.

<<...these Americans are such
suckers for a good show...>>

And, I think that sums up the confidence and feelings of most Americans at this point. Thanks again Bill.

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To: dougjn who wrote (11010)10/23/1998 10:35:00 PM
From: Dwight E. Karlsen
   of 67254
 
Did you sleep through the seige of Sarijevo? Are you aware that was the same Slobodan Milisovick (whatever his name is, Pres of Yugoslavia, anyway) who ran that war? Great, we made him go back into his cave for a year or two. Gee, I hope we celebrated big, because not much else was done. Because this year he was at it again, this time exterminating ethnic Albanians in Kosovo.

What part don't you understand? I am drawing a parallel between the shenanigans of Milisovick and the shenanigans that go on between Israelies and Arabs. This new improved "peace accord", isn't going to stop the shedding of blood in the middle east, between Jew and Arab. That's all I'm saying.

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To: Dwight E. Karlsen who wrote (11013)10/23/1998 10:37:00 PM
From: one_less
   of 67254
 
<<This new improved "peace accord", isn't going to stop the shedding of blood in the middle east, between Jew and Arab. That's all I'm saying.>>

Anyone who can't see that, can't see.

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To: one_less who wrote (11009)10/23/1998 10:54:00 PM
From: one_less
   of 67254
 
<<<<Can you guess how much I or the rest of the US gives a sh*t about an Israeli backlash?>>

Apparently you don't think there would be a problem. The Iraqis have received many reprimands from the US in the last few years. At this point the number of innocent children in Iraq who've died at the hands of the US/United Nations sanctions is in the many millions. They are dying daily in hospitals of starvation and common treatable diseases. But no medical supplies or food due to the sanctions. Far more have died than if Sadam were to unleash his (suspected) weapons of mass distruction all at once and they all found their targets. The number of similar violations to American mandates that the Israelies have committed in recent years far exceeds the Iraqis. Again, I can't imagine in my wildest dreams a US strike at Israel, or what the US would do if the Israeli government made a serious challenge to the US. That is only because, I honestly believe most Americans give very serious consideration to this and would do nearly anything to avoid it.

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