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 Politics | Bill Clinton Scandal - SANITY CHECK


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To: jbe who wrote (10993)10/23/1998 9:06:00 PM
From: one_less
   of 67256
 
No point in disputing it further.

My crystal ball says the confetti wont touch the ground before this one gets messed up.

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To: jbe who wrote (10990)10/23/1998 9:13:00 PM
From: dougjn
   of 67256
 
JBE, firstly, I really like your voice. I think I would like you in person quite a lot.

Secondly, re: why aren't we celebrating the peace accord. I agree with you. I guess I'm taking it for granted, in terms of what to bitch about on this forum. But as far as Clinton's achievements go, I think it's a biggie. He deserves much credit. And I think he's getting it. He deserves it.

Thirdly, re: Pollard, other spies for "friendly" countries, and the like.

Firstly, I think the reason he was not sentenced to die is that the death penalty for spies came in after he was first charged.

Secondly, I do not believe that any other spy for a "friendly" country has ever stolen information which remotely approached the level of importance of what Pollard stole.

Beyond that, I don't think that any foreign country is fully friendly. Certainly not Israel. Probably at the moment (although 1987-90 is really the most relevant period) Canada and Great Britain would be our closest allies. Israel is an ally, but mostly of the takes, and doesn't give, variety.

However, the primary thing is this. It is not up to any Jewish American to decide just how much the national security agencies of the United States should give to Israel. It is up to our democratically elected President, and Congress. It is perfectly legitimate for Jewish Americans to lobby, give money, and vote, to increase the sharing. It is criminally illegitimate for them to decide to violate our national secrecy laws and give unreleased secrets to the Israeli government.

I passionately believe that is a hanging offense. If Pollard was convicted in a pre-hanging era, well, at least keep him in jail forever.

Doug

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To: Zoltan! who wrote (10994)10/23/1998 9:15:00 PM
From: one_less
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<<Unless, of course, Israel regards the US as its enemy.>>

No way. Maybe spineless, but who knows about the future. Can you think of a country that has a stronger national focus and purpose that Israel? Can you think of a political force with more determination? We look at them as a tiny dependant nation today. They are our access to political stratagem in Middle East. Do you think they will need us or even respect us in the long run? Just one happy family, right? I think they're getting sick of our interference. How many big brothers have gotten their butts kicked as soon as the little one got big enough to clean their clocks? We are not the Israeli agenda, like we think they are part of ours.


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To: dougjn who wrote (10996)10/23/1998 9:20:00 PM
From: one_less
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<<why aren't we celebrating the peace accord>>

Because nobody is buying it. Want proof, watch the reaction of the Palestinian allies. I agree it advances the Israeli stabilization goals for the region. The accord is an indication only of the Palestinians having lost more teeth. The compromises are temporary tokens.

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To: Zoltan! who wrote (10994)10/23/1998 9:25:00 PM
From: one_less
   of 67256
 
Are you sure that Biff guy that was always screwing around with Michael J. Fox didn't grow up to be Bill Clinton. If so, he sure hasn't changed much.

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To: jbe who wrote (10982)10/23/1998 9:50:00 PM
From: one_less
   of 67256
 
Hey jbe, do I get a prize this time?

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To: Daniel Schuh who wrote (10872)10/23/1998 9:51:00 PM
From: Dwight E. Karlsen
   of 67256
 
If you want to get sanctimonious about "life", how about comparing # of PBA's to # of handgun deaths in the U.S.? Just to throw in another hot-button issue. Want me to dig up some numbers for you?

Indeed I do. Considering that the single statistic I have seen on PBA's was that in 1985, in the State of, I believe it was Ohio, there were about 1,000 PBA's. Also, I have heard that a PBA does not in any way save a mother's life. The reason being, the baby is 95% naturally birthed (i.e. "partial birth"), with only the head still inside the mother, when the scissors are plunged into the base of the skull. 1) If the baby is that far birthed, then the final 5% coming out into the world isn't going to hazard the mother. 2) Why the brutality towards this fetus, with the scissors and "skull evacuation"? The answer is the doctor is afraid the fetus will live. His orders are to abort a "blob of tissue" called a fetus, so he can't take a chance on having a beating heart and brainwaves joined by lungs sucking oxygen.

Let's hear your PBA vs. handgun #s. Perhaps with the 'net this weekend, you can dig up some numbers for us.

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To: one_less who wrote (10999)10/23/1998 9:57:00 PM
From: dougjn
   of 67256
 
Hey look. I expect every Jewish American and every other person who cares about these issues to answer the issues I've raised here. They are CENTRAL.

Divided loyalties goes to the heart of the American politic. I tried to delinate a hard, but reasonable, standard. This issue cannot be ignored by any American who is engaged in political discourse. I.e., everyone on this forum.

So answer me. What's the right balance???

Doug

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To: dougjn who wrote (10981)10/23/1998 10:01:00 PM
From: one_less
   of 67256
 
<<If Clinton really has only agreed to look at it again, and perhaps under a somewhat different procedure or something, I have no problem.>>

JMO that the "look at it again" was a signal that Pollard will be freed. Is it right. Heck no. Is it typical BC. Yep. Once away from the table with the Palestinians and the World lime light a minor effort for Bill.

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To: dougjn who wrote (11002)10/23/1998 10:06:00 PM
From: one_less
   of 67256
 
Can you imagine the Israeli back lash if once away from the table, BC makes a call and says hey guess what, on further review I found out he committed a crime against the US. Why, would he say he would give it further review. He already knows all that he needs to know about the case.

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