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To: Old Stock Collector who wrote (7612)2/7/2008 9:26:07 PM
From: Urlman
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From: Doren2/9/2008 1:00:41 AM
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How Donahoe Broke eBay

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From: Doren2/20/2008 12:39:03 AM
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Ebay going down in flames, execs are cashing in first. Stockholders screwed:

First part mostly about how ebay ignoring fraud, ebay insiders may be helping hackers commit fraud.

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To: Doren who wrote (7616)2/21/2008 12:01:27 PM
From: Urlman
   of 7760
Boycott a success - Auction Count Drops 20%

-17.73% - February 21, 2008 11:05 am

eBay's doublespeak on boycott - "no impact"

"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows"

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To: Urlman who wrote (7613)2/23/2008 4:57:55 PM
From: Old Stock Collector
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Auctions are NOT contractually binding! In fact auctions are not even a contract. I found out the hard way, it had gotten me into trouble selling on ebay and it cost me about $100,000 to get me out of trouble. Does ebay do any thing to help sellers out of trouble? NO! They keep letting sellers offer items for sale that ebay knows is illegal. If you don't know what I'm talking about look for Florida land for sale on ebay. It is illegal to sell land in Florida for under $50,000 unless The State of Florida has approved your land to be sold. To get approval you must pay some government employee a plane ticket & hotel stay to look at your land. It is also illegal to sell land located any where outside of Florida to any person living in Florida, again you would have to pay a plane ticket & hotel stay before you get permission to sell your land. So it is illegal to sell land on ebay that is located in Florida or to sell land located outside of Florida to anyone located in Florida with out getting permission from the State. Florida Chapter 498 Division of Land Sales The State tried to get me for $4 million for $300K in sales. By the way I was selling land for $2k to $17k. When I was talking to the investigator I said to him, what you are telling me is it was illegal for me to sell land for $2k but if I sold the same property for $50k or more it is ok? He said that is correct. I said that is idiotic & stupid, what is the reasoning? He said if someone is dumb enough to buy that same land for $50k or more than that is stupidity on them. I said the law should be the other way around because if someone bought something for $50k when it could be bought for $2k then the person selling at $50k is ripping off the buyer. If you get caught selling FL land on ebay the State is going to try to fine you $40k for each property sold, $10k for the offering, $10k for the sale, $10k for not having an approved FL contract and another $10k for another reason.

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To: Old Stock Collector who wrote (7618)3/5/2008 7:19:21 PM
From: Urlman
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eBay listing count - scandal or mistake?

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To: Old Stock Collector who wrote (7618)3/5/2008 7:22:41 PM
From: Urlman
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Old Stocks: it would seem to me that the burden is *not* on eBay to find out if each of those sellers has registered their land.

Auctions are contractually binding if they are legal.

If it is illegal to sell land, then the auction would not be contractually binding.


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From: JakeStraw4/29/2008 10:22:14 AM
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Start-up hopes to outdo eBay with online market

Wigix believes its Nasdaq-style, community-boosted trading system is better than eBay's auctions for selling most things. But the company faces formidable challenges.
Tue, Apr 29 06:00:00 PDT 2008

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From: Glenn Petersen4/30/2008 8:22:01 PM
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Silicon Alley Insider recently valued Craigslist at $5 billion.

The facts behind the EBay-Craigslist litigation:

April 30, 2008, 4:58 pm

EBay-Craigslist Fight Is About Kijiji and Control, Complaint Shows

By Brad Stone

Last week, eBay sued the classified advertising site Craigslist in a Delaware court. The suit received widespread coverage but its causes were opaque, since a copy of the complaint was not made public and the parties were not speaking publicly.

Until today. EBay’s complaint against Craigslist, its founder Craig Newmark and its chief executive Jim Buckmaster, has now become public and eBay is making it available online. The document seems to show that the two companies have been engaged in a battle over control triggered by Kijiji, eBay’s rival classified advertising site.

Here’s a quick synopsis of the 26-page complaint, some of which is redacted to protect information about the finances of Craigslist and its two primary shareholders.

In August 2004, eBay bought 28.4 percent of Craigslist. As part of that contract, the parties agreed that if eBay ever entered into the online classified advertising market and became a competitor, each side would no longer have a “right of first refusal” to acquire each other’s shares.

In 2005, eBay went into the classified ad business overseas, launching In 2007, eBay launched the site in the United States.

In June 2007, Craigslist notified eBay that it was engaging in competitive activity and that both parties had ceased being subject to the right of first refusal.

In July, eBay notified Craigslist that it was withdrawing Josh Silverman, now Skype’s chief executive, from the Craigslist board since he had worked on Kijiji. EBay tried to appoint Thomas Jeon, an eBay lawyer, to the Craigslist board, but Craigslist did not respond to the requests, according to the complaint.

In late July 2007, in an e-mail message to Jim Buckmaster, Meg Whitman said eBay had taken steps to “completely firewall” off Kijiji from its interest in Craigslist. She also reaffirmed eBay’s interest in buying all of Craigslist. “We would welcome the opportunity to acquire the remainder of Craiglist we do not already own whenever you and Craig feel it would be appropriate,” she wrote.

That triggered what appears to have been fear at Craigslist that the non-profit-minded company could somehow be subjected to a hostile takeover.

In October 2007, the two Craigslist directors began meeting with their lawyer on corporate governance issues, without eBay’s involvement.

On January 1, 2008, they reorganized the company’s stock structure, issuing one “reorganization” share of Craigslist stock for every five shares of common stock. That diluted eBay’s stock from 28.04 percent to 24.85 percent and, as specified in Craigslist’s bylaws, eBay lost its ability to elect a director.

Thus, the lawsuit.

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From: Glenn Petersen5/12/2008 8:41:03 AM
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Silicon Alley Insider has pegged the value of Craiglist at $5 billion. Presumably, that would require Craigslist to work on “maximizing its own profits," a concept that it currently disdains.

Message 24572381

Craig (of the List) Looks Beyond the Web

May 12, 2008


Imagine what it might have been like to be Dr. Kleenex. You invent a modern miracle, the cheap paper handkerchief, and suddenly you become the person blamed for America’s disposable culture, praised for a more convenient life, or both.

There never was a Dr. Kleenex, though — the product was created by a team of researchers at Kimberly-Clark laboratories in the 1920s. But there is a real Craig in Craigslist, and lately he is looking at life beyond his little list that happens to be the seventh-most-popular Web site in the United States.

It is also a site that is deeply tied up with the fate of newspapers — indeed, many in the newspaper industry blame the site’s founder, Craig Newmark, for the downturn in their classified-advertising business.

An ardently no-frills, ad-free, user-sensitive site, Craigslist has, by the estimate of its chief executive, Jim Buckmaster, generated more than 600 million free classified listings. (Though nearly all listings remain free, Craigslist has added modest fees for job listings and real estate brokers in certain big cities, and from those fees the company generates $80 million to $100 million in annual revenue. It has a staff of 25, including Mr. Newmark.)

In the United States and beyond, Craigslist is digging even deeper into the classified-ad markets. Once, an announcement that Craigslist was expanding meant adding cities like Miami, Minneapolis and Philadelphia. These days, it means smaller places like Janesville, Wis., (population: about 60,000) and Farmington, N.M., (roughly 38,000) as well as Cebu in the Philippines and, by Mr. Newmark’s request, a site for Ramallah on the West Bank.

In the face of this expansion, Mr. Newmark is becoming more of a public figure, capitalizing on his success to promote causes that include supporting the Barack Obama campaign and financing investigative journalism — not, he insists, to compensate for any damage Craigslist has done to the newspaper business, which he calls “an urban myth.”

Sitting in a coffee shop in San Francisco a month ago, explaining his plans in neat mathematical style, Mr. Newmark presented an unassuming public presence. He was perched on an ordinary seat, a six-year-old Prius parked nearby, a Kangol beret on his balding head.

He used to spend two-thirds of his time working on customer service issues (including notifying an Internet service provider about a scammer on the site), he said, and the remaining third on “founder issues,” a catchall term he uses for his public-spirited work. That division, he said, would now be half and half.

But before he can extricate himself from customer issues, Mr. Newmark will have to resolve some of the growing business and legal complexities that surround Craigslist, a laid-back operation that is bumping into tough-minded competitors.

A Delaware lawsuit accuses him and Mr. Buckmaster of boardroom chicanery, an assertion they emphatically deny. Their accuser is the online giant eBay, which became a minority shareholder in 2004, with a stake of roughly 28 percent.

And while officials at Craigslist, including Mr. Newmark, maintain that for many years he has not had a significant leadership role there, the eBay lawsuit describes Mr. Newmark, in addition to being a large shareholder, as chairman (the board has two members; it had been three).

The suit was set in motion by eBay’s decision to introduce a rival online-classified site, Kijiji, in the United States last year. Kijiji is already the market leader in Canada, Germany, Italy and Taiwan.

EBay’s complaint contends that after the Kijiji move, Mr. Newmark and Mr. Buckmaster plotted in secret to dilute eBay’s influence in the company, including an effort to deprive it of its board seat. The lawsuit asks the court to reverse those provisions.

Craigslist is expected to respond to the complaint this month, but on its blog it offered an assessment: “Sadly, we have an uncomfortably conflicted shareholder in our midst, one that is obsessed with dominating online classifieds for the purpose of maximizing its own profits.”

The phrase “maximizing its own profits” broadly outlines the fight between the two companies.

Despite its success, Craigslist prides itself on its grass-roots instincts and user-based content — including harnessing its users to identify and block bad actors on the site. Even broad strategic decisions, such as which areas to expand into, are described as reflecting user requests made at online forums at the site.

As the complaint indicated, last year Mr. Buckmaster wrote to Meg Whitman, then the chief executive of eBay, saying, “We are no longer comfortable having eBay as a shareholder, and wish to explore options for our repurchase, or for otherwise finding a new home for these shares.”

In an e-mail message of its own, eBay stressed that the two companies would remain joined. “We would obviously prefer to see this resolved without litigation,” eBay wrote. “With that said, we will only accept a resolution that preserves our rights and the full value of our investment in Craigslist. We will continue to act openly and in good faith as a minority shareholder.”

The competition between the companies is also heating up outside court. EBay has recently sent e-mail messages to its users promoting Kijiji, and Craigslist in the last few weeks has added 120 cities, half of them overseas, where Kijiji has been dominant.

The Web sites’ expansion comes as newspapers are experiencing a steep downturn in classified advertising, magnified by the badly depressed housing market and weaker overall economy. Print classified advertising declined 16 percent last year, to $14.2 billion, according to the Newspaper Association of America, below the 1996 level, even without adjusting for inflation.

In this straitened market, Craigslist becomes shorthand for the threat that online advertising outlets are seen as posing to newspapers.

Mr. Buckmaster responds, saying that Craigslist has no sales force and has not sought to win over newspaper advertisers, in contrast to companies like the job-listing site Monster. “That to me is a direct attack on newspapers,” he said. “We put a service out there.”

“There are bigger things that have been more problematic for newspapers,” he added, including circulation losses and basic mismanagement. “Newspapers have an enormous amount of debt. That is not something that can be laid at our doorstep.”

Clayton Frink is the publisher of The Capital Times in Madison, Wis., where Craigslist arrived in 2005. The newspaper late last month stopped printing daily, adopting a Web strategy and printing weekly.

“They have ads we would have had once upon a time,” he said, but added that his staff did not consider it “No. 1 or No. 2 or 3 of Web sites that hurt our business.” The bigger enemy, he said, is the changing marketplace, noting that large employers used to buy a page and a half for job listings and “now they put in a small ad saying to see their Web site.”

“What Craigslist does well is build a community and a feel of a community,” he said. “Building communities is going to be critical for any online product, whether a newspaper or not.”

Also, Craigslist no longer sneaks up on local newspapers. Sammy Lopez, publisher of The Daily Times in Farmington, said: “We’ve been kind of watching them. You can get on Craigslist and see if people have been requesting a site. I asked someone to look at that four or five months ago, and saw that they had.”

He said the knowledge that Craigslist would be arriving someday led the paper to improve its online presentation of classified ads, creating more categories and clear entry points. He noted that a vibrant classified-ad section was both a revenue source and a reason that people buy the paper and visit the Web site.

Mr. Newmark is a believer in the power of technology to improve life — whether in the blogging he does for Mr. Obama, a visit he recently made to Israel where he argued in favor of microloans and technological innovation to build up the Palestinian economy, or the use of online tools to make government more transparent.

He promotes these projects on his personal blog. As of the last couple of weeks, he has been writing posts on, too.

The list of good-government and good-journalism Web sites Mr. Newmark is involved with — sometimes financially, but more often as adviser and advocate in the Silicon Valley world — speak for themselves:,,,,

An article in The Observer of London two years ago described him as “readying his armory of cash to invest in citizen journalism projects.” Mr. Newmark says he never donated more than $20,000 to any organization.

But he has not followed the common path to Silicon Valley philanthropy — create a successful Web site, sell the Web site either to a larger company or through an initial public offering, acquire a pile of cash, then give away part of that.

While unwilling to discuss his wealth, he said he could be a lot richer if he wanted to. “We know these guys in Google and the eBay guys,“ he said, “and they are not any happier than anyone else. A lot of money is a burden.”

Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company

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