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To: IngotWeTrust who wrote (2898)6/25/2001 9:15:15 AM
From: Freedom Fighter   of 3727
 
>> I do NOT believe LVLT has enough "capital" to survive, let alone "CONTROL" over cap expenses and operating expenses to get to the other side. We part at opening premise.<<

LVLT had cash and lines of credit equal to 4.5 billion as of the end of the first quarter. There is another 800 million of investments. That's 5.3 billion.

Cash interest payments will equal 1.8 billion over the next 30 months.

The company has extreme control over cap ex starting in 2002. According to the numbers I have seen 600 million is the required cap ex amount for 2002 and 2003. All other scheduled cap ex for those years is based on the estimates of sharply growing earnings. That's 1.2 billion if they can't make their current revenue estimates.

That's a total of 3 billion in guaranteed cash burn from 5.3 billion. That leaves about 2.3 billion through 2003 - some of which will spent in 2001 on "required cap ex". It is not clear how much that amount is but based on current revenue estimates it burns about another 1.8 billion - leaving 500 million under some really bad assumptions through the end of 2003. That around the time of free cash flow positive.

However, there is the issue of EBITDA. The company is EBITDA negative right now but is rapidly closing in on being EBITDA positive. "Positive" is scheduled for first quarter of 2002. Let's assume they don't make it by then. They will burn a couple of hundred more million over the next few quarters.

However, it seems pretty clear they will make it soon (at a minimum) because revenues ARE still rising despite the problems. That means the cash burn numbers from above will have to be adjusted downward somewhat - leaving more cash and a lot more time. Perhaps Cap Ex will be higher if revenues are higher, but EBITDA will be more positive. They are closely related.

In any event, without tapping Scott they can make it. If you don't think Scott will come in if the business is a proven success and just needs more time you are definitely 100% mistaken. Take a look at RCN. I would argue that RCN is in worse shape than LVLT and he is already helping that company because he thinks it is a winner long term. He HAS, repeat HAS, added to his position in LVLT in the last few weeks by buying some shares from CROWE. So obviously he still likes it.

As an aside, I don't consider all of the 14 billion to be assets. What I consider it to be is the amount of money someone who wanted an asset like LVLT's would have to spend to build it. So down the line when those legacy companies are making the decision to buy or build, if they could snare LVLT for 14 billion they would be getting a huge bargain because of all the tangible and intangible costs over and above 14 billion. That's why it may eventually either get taken out at an extremely high price or get an equity injection from someone who would like to own it eventually. (other than Scott)

The shorts are burying this company very prematurely. It's not just kicking. It has a lot of life. In my estimation and a few others, the pricing - especially for the bonds - is irrationally reflecting certain doom and that's not the case. Good Luck

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To: Freedom Fighter who wrote (2899)6/25/2001 7:01:57 PM
From: Freedom Fighter   of 3727
 
I should add that working capital is scheduled to be a net negative of 700 million over the 30 next months, but that amount is somewhat "soft" because it depends on what the actual revenues and cap ex are.

One the plus side, in my last numbers crunching guesstimates I was using GAAP numbers for EBITDA. (being very conservative) "Cash" EBITDA numbers (due to dark fiber sales and other revenues) are already sharply positive and expected to grow. It is very unclear what these amounts will ultimately be, but the projected numbers are huge over the next 30 months. In any event, even if they are mildly positive (which seems a certainty) that more than offsets working capital requirements and adds to the margin of safety.

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To: Freedom Fighter who wrote (2899)6/25/2001 7:12:38 PM
From: Bob Williamson   of 3727
 
Wayne,

Thank you and Gold Tutor for the very, informative, and speculative exchange.

Bob

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To: MangoBoy who started this subject6/26/2001 9:43:53 AM
From: Think4Yourself   of 3727
 
Anyone care to comment on the new contract with Microsoft? At the market open I switched from what has been a very profitable short position to a long position twice as large.

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To: Think4Yourself who wrote (2902)6/26/2001 11:30:33 AM
From: SecularBull   of 3727
 
MSFT obviously does not know how to conduct good business.

<VBG>

~SB~

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To: MangoBoy who started this subject6/26/2001 1:39:37 PM
From: Herc   of 3727
 
I need a primer on how exactly the fiberoptic network companies bill for their services. Do they just lease out the fiber space? And then the lessee is responsible for lighting it and all the gadgets to switch on to & off of it? Or do they meter the data transmitted?

If they just lease out the space then they appear to be ****** with DWDM having the potential to divide each fiber into 1000+ wavelengths and the fact that less than 3% of the fiber is lit today.

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To: Herc who wrote (2904)6/27/2001 10:25:57 AM
From: Leroyt   of 3727
 
Don't know the answer to your question, but after yesterday's MSN announcement, I have to wonder if MSFT and/or Bill Gates may be feasting on shares of LVLT at these levels.

Bill KNOWS the demand will be there. Anyone who questions that is a fool. I've heard for two decades about who is every going to use all that power on a new PC. Hah!

The power (er ... bandwidth) need now is on the internet much more than on PCs. The last mile situation has been a problem ... but I think it's being worked out.

Anyone watched Yahoo's FinanceVision over DSL or broadband of one flavor or another. There is a great example of the future of the internet/TV. It WILL happen but who will survive.

Given the experience of the LVLT management and the $$ behind Walter Scott and the fact that Walter is close to Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, I think this company has the resources to survive. IMHO, the company has scaled back (more than some would have liked) to insure survival.

Major economic catastophes withstanding, we are coming out of the Y2K bubble in the next year or so (maybe sooner). Demand will follow.

good luck to all LVLT longs and later, leroyt

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To: Raymond Duray who wrote (2880)6/27/2001 3:53:21 PM
From: All Mtn Ski   of 3727
 
Ray,

This article sums up my thinking on fiber and why I am not writing off the industry:

streetsideinvestor.com 

Sure, more near-term pain ahead, but there will be a point when you want to buy these companies, especially since they are being priced for bankruptcy.

Cheers,

Tom

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To: All Mtn Ski who wrote (2906)6/27/2001 4:54:18 PM
From: Raymond Duray   of 3727
 
Hi Tom,

The Streetsider Investor article is a nice cheerleading effort. But I think it falls short of distinguishing between a lust for bandwidth (which I concur is the true state of the market), and the problems with price, infrastructure and the nemesis of the last mile. Where there simply isn't enough revenue potential to justify the extravagant long haul networks. The author may view the 97+% of all installed cable as so much "junk mail", but I view it two ways. One, it is largely obsolete due to improving characteristics of single mode fiber types, and thus incompatible with today's termination equipment. And two) that termination equipment is actually the financial hurdle that has had the telecom SPs laying fiber like mad, while leaving the vastly more costly OADM, DWDM and switching equipment for another day. That day will never come.

Sure, more near-term pain ahead, but there will be a point when you want to buy these companies, especially since they are being priced for bankruptcy.

More than likely, you and I as retail equity investors won't be given a chance to buy into these companies because what is going to happen is that as they approach or go through bankruptcy, the equity holder will be wiped out. But, you say, not if they skirt BK.... In that instance, what will happen is massive dilution of the existing equity holders as vulture funds come in with "white knight" financing, offering operating cash for lucrative convertible preferred shares that will cause massive dilution over time. I'd be very careful about this and be sure to know what the financial structure of a company looks like before committing funds. They may look like bargains on the surface at extremely cheap prices. But they can still be over-priced due to the enthusiasms of the unwary, and a very risky capital structure.

JM2C, Ray

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To: Raymond Duray who wrote (2907)6/27/2001 5:55:57 PM
From: All Mtn Ski   of 3727
 
Ray,

"That day will never come"

Does that mean I will always and forever have slow web searches and long download times from my house? I have a hard time believing that today's technology is as far as it will ever go. The metro market is not even here yet, am I understanding you correctly that it will never develop? If so, I'm going back to investing in railroads and banks. <g>

Well, all this talk just reaffirms my belief that the NAZ has a lot more downside left.

On the capital structure analysis, I have always applied "value-investing" to my technology picks. It kept me out of all the internuts, while all my friends were plowing into them, it kept me out of BRCM, BRCD, AMCC, JNPR and the like that were going for 40X book. I was able to enjoy good returns over the past few years and ended up keeping just about all of what I made through this ugly bear market. I am cautious, but I think once some solid tech issues get to 1X book or under (after subtracting all Goodwill from Book Value of course), there should be some good buys. If not, the American economy will go the way of the Japanese and many generations will suffer. As a happy optimist <g>, I have to think this will be avoided.

Than again, as a political science major, I have to think everyone will be screwed. <bg>

Cheers,

Tom

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