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 Technology Stocks | Applied Micro Circuits Corp (AMCC)


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To: G.F. who wrote (1624)10/12/2001 4:12:42 PM
From: techanalyst1   of 1805
 
Oh. Well amcc looks great doesn't it?

Still mucho dinero but who knows. Maybe I'm underestimating how well they'll do.

Won't be the first time with amcc.

TA

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To: techanalyst1 who wrote (1623)10/13/2001 6:50:19 PM
From: FR1   of 1805
 
... and not much better until AFTER their next FY starts which is after March at which time he's expecting "moderate growth"...

Isn't that the problem?

PE's and other indicators are based on what growth is expected in the coming 6-9 months but only a crazy person would say they could predict that. Rickey is doing his job of being very conservative in his forcasts.

Many people feel the story plays out like this:

1) The FED raised rates way up in early 2000 and kept them there for far too long (Chambers, Scotty and many others have said this over and over).

2) So industries that were capital intensive and had rapid growth underway were clobbered when funds were choked off. You may have been servicing 400 customers and suddenly found that only 100 could place orders. The newspapers reported this as a "bubble" because it sells papers.

3) Because of this we have to go through a period where bankruptcies are sorted out and we wait for really cheap money. Eventually we get back to seriously building out the net.

4) Many feel we are at the point now where things are turning. Quest recently make announcements about deploying VoIP to its customers. ATT is almost done with its split up. Comcast is chomping at the bit to jump in and spend - as they stated when they bid for ATT broadband. The backroom deals make it look like Comcast will get T's broadband unit one way or the other.

5) If you believe all this is true, then the projections given by the CEOs will still be very conservative but the actual growth will be sharply higher.

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To: FR1 who wrote (1626)10/13/2001 8:27:41 PM
From: techanalyst1   of 1805
 
Those were projections from David Rickey at the annual meeting which was held in the final days of August 2001.

Juniper isn't in exactly the same sector, but they are subject to the same macro economic environment that amcc is. They beat consensus estimates, but only came in line with their own guidance from last July. They guided down for next year.

There isn't really any reason to think that amcc is suddenly going to change their views either. It wouldn't take a whole lot for amcc to do that though since they are bringing in so much less than in the past, so just a few extra deals could be just their ticket or maybe some extra "turns biz".

Interest rate increases didn't help, but the fact of the matter is that customers across the sector were over ordering and hoarding and too much product was out there.

That's why interest rate cuts alone are not helping, but rather capex estimates keep getting cut.

If growth were going to be a lot higher, why is juniper cutting their estimates for next year and not raising them? They did pretty well in giving guidance for this quarter.

We'll see what guidance we get when amcc reports results. They've been conservative in the past. The stock sure acts like estimates are too low. I won't put it past them to exceed them. I would love to hear them guide up and I'd love to hear David Rickey say that he is pretty sure the biz is turning because the "turns biz" has gone up dramatically.

Do you really expect that amcc will be able to see sequential 20-30% quarter over quarter growth on a sustainable basis again? To exceed their old growth, they are going to have to do even better than that. They may be able to do that when earnings are low, but as they grow earnings again, I have my doubts that they can perform that well on a sustainable basis again, no matter what interest rates are.

Btw... amcc has no forward PE based on consensus estimates because the consesus is for them to lose money next year. Once the estimates move to earning money again, the pe will be astronimical and pretty much useless as a means to value the company.

TA

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To: techanalyst1 who wrote (1627)10/15/2001 3:09:54 AM
From: FR1   of 1805
 
I can't say I disagree with most of what you say as long as you agree that we are in a very volitle time and it is hard to predict anything. Everybody is going to lowball all their projections.

I sort of disagree with your way of saying things but it is really just semantics:

the fact of the matter is that customers across the sector were over ordering and hoarding and too much product was out there.

I don't think anyone was hoarding anything (for what?) and too much product was not out there. AMCC and other broadband semis had a large list of customers and were producing just what was needed when the FED decided to choke off the money supply and kill the economy. This made AMCC's cutomer base dry up overnight and killed all but strong. As a consequence of the FED action the baby bells suddenly woke up with no competiton and a stranglehold on the metro market. They realized that they now have almost no reason to rush and roll things out. So they put the brakes on and things have slowed to a crawl.

Rickey pointed out that the problem is not that there is a glut of AMCC product out there but rather that there are no orders coming in. PMCS is in a slightly different position.

If Quest and others suddenly decided to go gangbusters on a broadband infrastructure build out which they claim they are going to do (ha!) things could change overnight but they have really have absolutely no reason to do it. If they sit still they are very profitable collecting good money every month from their subs. If they build out it costs them money. So no competition = no growth. It is a classic bust part of the FED boom-and-bust cycle.

What ususally happens at this time is that the money is so dirt cheap that businesses with the need for expansion would be foolish not to take advantage of it. Note the securities industry lowering the barrier for IPOs and congress talking about massive spending. One way or the other they will get things going but how fast and how much comes our way is anybody's guess.

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To: FR1 who wrote (1628)10/15/2001 8:49:23 AM
From: techanalyst1   of 1805
 
Companies were over ordering because they wanted to make sure they had enough supply to meet their future needs. When companies have inventories rise several quarters in a row, then it means they've been ordering more than they've been using. Call it hoarding or call it stockpiling. It's still too much product. If there weren't too much product out then there, then why was there a need for the massive writedowns we've seen?

If interest rates were the only or even the main reason that orders stopped, then why aren't we back to 2000 levels now? Interest rates are lower than when Alan Greenspan started to raise them. And why did earnings and revenues go up when interest rates were also rising if the reason for orders going down was interest rates rising? Amcc didn't lower guidance until after the interest rate reductions were already in place. And their first quarter of earnings reductions didn't occur until after three rate reductions.

Granted, interest rates take months to be fully felt up and down, so it could be argued that it took a while for amcc to be affected by rising rates and falling rates are probably just beginning to help. However, lower rates by themselves, do NOT make banks lend more money. They do NOT force anyone with alot of debt on their books already to borrow more or even be able to refinance at attractive rates. If interest rates were helping the economy, why is Congress now looking at corporate tax incentives? There would be no need for that if companies were able and willing to just start buying again.

It's NOT only about supply. The other half of the equation is demand which is NOT only related to interest rates.

It's been several quarters of drought in this sector, so more likely than not, inventories have been worked down, but that still doesn't mean orders are going to fly. The stock acts like that's the case, so maybe they will... I sure have no way to know one way or the other. I can only listen to what David Rickey has to say. And he's not talking until earnings. It certainly wouldn't be the first time the street were fooled by the strength in this company and I still wonder why he was buying stock on the open market, if he didn't see value in the stock.

If the stock flies again today on even higher volume after being downgraded again, then I'll have to wonder if someone knows something about earnings.

Almost all companies low ball guidance. They've done it for years. Despite that fact, in this sector, every time they were lowered this last year, they were still too optimistic. But if you want to think that we're in for blowout earnings and guidance for 125 million in quarterly revenues going forward this time and think the stock will fly to the moon, be my guest.

Btw... I think that analysts will likely be lowering estimates when they should be raising them.... the opposite of what they were doing at the top. Maybe we're there now. I sure hope so.

TA

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To: techanalyst1 who wrote (1629)10/15/2001 10:22:01 AM
From: FR1   of 1805
 
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. AMCC has big customers like NT and CSCO that put AMCC products in the orders that they are building. You can't deny the fact that the high interest rates of 2000 caused massive damage to the economy. Just look at the bankruptcies. Look at the NASDAQ - year 2000 was the most massive crash of its history (and the FED ignored it for the whole year). I remember listening to CSCO, SUN and lots of others screaming for rates to be lowered throughout the year.

If there weren't too much product out then there, then why was there a need for the massive writedowns we've seen?
Because CSCO, NT, etc suddenly found themselves with warehouses full of parts to complete projects for customers that were going bankrupt or baby bells that no longer needed to build out so they cancelled orders. The parts in this industry also quickly become obsolete. Since you had profits in the past and none in the future you writedown.

....why aren't we back to 2000 levels now?
Because the customers are either dead or have little competition. If you are PacBell you have to roll stuff out because NorthPoint is eating your lunch. NorthPoint is dead now so you don't have to roll out anything.


It's NOT only about supply. The other half of the equation is demand which is NOT only related to interest rates.
Right. That's just what I said. Dead people don't talk.


They do NOT force anyone with alot of debt on their books already to borrow more or even be able to refinance at attractive rates.
Yeah, you are right. This is the dangerous part of the cycle for just that reason. If there is competition and demand then there is big ordering right now. If there is little competition you do not have to order.

I still wonder why he was buying stock on the open market, if he didn't see value in the stock.
I remember everyone bitching like mad in 2000 when he was selling like mad. He was right. Now he is buying. Probably right again. He talks to customers and we don't.

Almost all companies low ball guidance. They've done it for years.
When things were going up in 1999 AMCC would give positive guidance. I liked them best because they did not showboat during the CC and were fairly accurate.

Btw... I think that analysts will likely be lowering estimates when they should be raising them....
I agree. Throughout 2000 brokerage firms were telling the public to hold tight as they dumped their shares wholesale. Now that we are at the bottom they downgrade stocks while their firms load up on the stock.

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To: FR1 who wrote (1630)10/15/2001 11:03:29 AM
From: techanalyst1   of 1805
 
Yes, they were screaming for rates to be lowered. That should kind of say that their customers had to borrow or service debt in order to buy more. In the past, that's how they bought more from their suppliers. But they were also losing more money than they were making. That cannot continue forever. Too many companies came public and those customers bought from csco, etc. The dead cease to buy.

Csco inventories were rising quarter over quarter for a while. They were accepting more product than they were able to sell.

If interest rate increases alone were responsible, interest rate cuts would solve the problem and they haven't.

If amcc's products are obsolete so quickly, do you really think that companies will want to order more than they need for their immediate future?

Don't get me wrong. I like Amcc ALOT. I just think that it is expensive and growth isn't necessarily going to return to it's previous growth rate in a sustainable manner. I can only say that a month before the quarter end, guidance was for flat revenues from last quarter with moderate growth after March 2002 and it came from David Rickey himself. Maybe things have gone gang busters since then.

I don't think that it's over for this sector. The strong will get stronger and the weak will die. Amcc is one of the strong companies and their cash is going to see them through any downturns as long as they aren't too long.

I'd like to know about new design wins and whether they are losing any market share to other IC semis.

TA

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To: Kayaker who wrote (1616)10/15/2001 12:15:15 PM
From: Kayaker   of 1805
 
AMCC LEAPS available as of last (I think) week.

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To: techanalyst1 who wrote (1631)10/16/2001 10:59:36 AM
From: FR1   of 1805
 
It will be an interesting CC.
We will have to compare notes after it is over.

I still stand by my "big picture" of what happened. Basically, it was like this:

By the late 90's businesses knew that broadband was in great demand and if you could provide it there were buyers. It was a gold rush to lay fiber with the long haul being first.

Small companies sprang up that planned on putting fiber in the ground and then selling their net to bigger people (like T, WCOM, Q, etc). This really put the pressure on the baby bells and large telcom businesses to get their stuff in the ground first. Consequently, CSCO, NT, LU, etc and their suppliers AMCC, PMCS, etc were going nuts tryig to keep up with the demand and they extended credit to the people doing the roll out.

If the FED would have stayed out of the picture, there would have been a natural and normal weeding out of businesses.

Instead the FED insisted on doing a tight money campaign to kill off businesses not because there was any inflation but because things looked "academically" unsound. The FED move was a disaster to anyone involved in telecom business. It also really screwed up CSCO and the like because it left them with monster inventories and debt from businesses that they could never collect on because the tight money policy killed them off (no funding available).

Now we are living through the correction phase.

If interest rate increases alone were responsible, interest rate cuts would solve the problem and they haven't.
This is only true if the FED started cutting rates in late April 2000 when everyone was still alive (like they should have). Showing up with money after most of the businesses are bankrupt or so completely restructured you can't recognize them does no good. Now you have to start from scratch and it is a long road back.

IMHO, I think it will be a long road back because so many businesses were killed by the FED (hence nobody out there to place orders) but AMCC will be one of the strongest as the market does comes back. AMCC, PMCS and BRCM are my bets. Some CSCO too at this level.

In the long run, the market rewards areas of growth. Although you can argue that banks, etc have small reliable growth the basic demand for broadband has the most predictable strong demand and growth of any industry I can think of. Can you think of any other industry?

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To: FR1 who wrote (1633)10/16/2001 12:28:21 PM
From: techanalyst1   of 1805
 
The Fed accelerated the process. If there were enough demand, the strong would be buying more.

Debt is what killed off the sector. And most of the weaklings with debt borrowed when rates were NOT at their highs, so they will STILL have trouble borrowing at more attractive rates if the bank would even consider them.

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