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To: CommanderCricket who wrote (11247)11/13/2007 9:29:45 PM
From: The Jack of Hearts   of 11633
 
I agree. I just thought I'd put it out there since it was on BNN. It surprised me when I heard it as PWE looked pretty much the same as Canetic in published payout ratio. I have a little more digging to do.

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To: The Jack of Hearts who wrote (11248)11/13/2007 10:12:14 PM
From: wherry2 Recommendations   of 11633
 
It seems always to come back to being a more-or-less straight play on oil and NG prices. The market does not anywhere near give full value to energy company equity (whether common stock or units of income trusts), if you use current and quoted future oil and gas market prices.

In other words, if an investor believes energy prices are going to collapse shortly (Greenie??!!), then by all means sell.

If you have a reasonable time perspective (say one to two years), and think that the evidence for coming supply constraints is compelling, then buy and hold quality O and G stocks. Eventually the weighing machine aspect of the market will kick in and value will win. It might be painful in the meantime - that's always true.

Tony.

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To: wherry who wrote (11249)11/13/2007 10:32:38 PM
From: The Jack of Hearts   of 11633
 
Tony I bought the Canetic looking a few years out. It's in my kids' RESPs.. I needed to put some cash in a drawer in both cases as they were getting a bit unwieldly (in a good way :O) so my time horizon even on my daughter is fine.. She is only in grade 10 so at least 3 years there before I need to worry about drawing down.. My son is only grade three so I have a very long time there.

I was just caught off guard by the Penn West comment by the Sentry Select guy. I mentioned back of the napkin Penn West look fine.. If a distribution cut is coming though would we get an opportunity like the other day with Harvest ? I had rolled my Harvest into Canetic a while ago fearing an impending Harvest cut..

blackie

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To: The Jack of Hearts who wrote (11250)11/14/2007 10:38:10 AM
From: wherry   of 11633
 
I don't see a distribution cut in the next several months for either Canetic or Penn West, but let's pretend that the very worst happens and they both cut by a full third, you will still be getting 10% or better. If we get a "normal" winter either in NA or Europe, increased NG and LNG prices will make both of these trusts pretty attractive, with the distributions looking very safe again even to the most pessimistic. If that happens, we will be looking at a possible 50% capital gain in 2008, with little downside risk, since the current prices are already discounting the worst.

The whole situation offers a reasonable risk/reward ratio in my book. In the meantime, 15% or so cash on cash is nice.



Tony.

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To: wherry who wrote (11251)11/14/2007 2:36:31 PM
From: a.handbag.   of 11633
 
"Looking at a possible 50% capital gain" is in my experience a recipe for disappointment. The problem is that first the unit price has to go up, and then you have to sell units to realize the gain, and then you pay tax on the gain. I concentrate my hopes on distributions, either to spend or reinvest. The future unit prices are, IMO, a crapshoot.

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To: a.handbag. who wrote (11252)11/14/2007 2:57:35 PM
From: wherry   of 11633
 
I don't disagree at all - but the possibility of a gain instead of a (nominal?) loss is always good to have. At my age, I am investing principally for income, too. Inside my RRIF, I don't (yet) have to worry about capital gains tax.

Tony.

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To: aurora444 who wrote ()11/19/2007 4:26:54 PM
From: MoneyPenny   of 11633
 
good bye spammer. MP

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From: a.handbag.11/20/2007 5:18:39 PM
   of 11633
 
Strange day with gold up $25, oil up $3.50 and triple digits on the TSX. Yet the diversifieds I hold, SDT, EIT and SEF, were down. Screaming buys IMO, if yields in the teens mean anything to you.

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To: a.handbag. who wrote (11255)11/21/2007 4:32:40 PM
From: wherry   of 11633
 
Yields, yes, plus the most amazing discounts to market-priced NAV of the holdings. I would have thought that in the case of SDT.un (at least) the mandatory market re-purchase program would have narrowed the discount, but it does not seem to be happening. I wonder why.

Tony.

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To: wherry who wrote (11256)11/21/2007 9:54:26 PM
From: a.handbag.2 Recommendations   of 11633
 
Blood in the streets. This is where the real money is made.

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