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To: Sam who wrote (45518)9/2/2010 5:10:23 PM
From: FUBHO   of 55223
 
Will Elpida shake up NAND market?

Mark LaPedus

9/2/2010 3:12 PM EDT

eetimes.com 

SAN JOSE, Calif. - As reported, Japan's Elpida Memory Inc. on Thursday made its formal entry into the NAND flash market.

Will Elpida change the competitive NAND landscape? One analyst says no. The other says maybe.

''Elpida’s entrance into the NAND market with the low density (4Gbit-1Gbit) 1.8V MirrorBit NAND and Spansion coming out with 3V versions will have a very slight impact on the NAND market,'' said Alan Niebel, president of Web-Feet Research.

''These low density products either for wireless (Elpida) or the embedded/industrial (Spansion) markets will enable OEMs with legacy designs to have an alternative and on-going source of NAND,'' he said.

''Most of the other NAND vendors have migrated out of these ‘low’ densities and are developing TLC (3 bit/cell) to address low cost NAND at much higher densities (>16Gbit). So, whether there are sufficient demand drivers to keep a couple of the NAND incumbents still manufacturing ‘low density’ NAND will determine how successful Elpida, Spansion and maybe the Taiwanese will be in this relatively small niche,'' he added.

Others had a different view. ''Elpida is the last DRAM maker to get into NAND (if we don't count companies who partner with larger DRAM makers). This is important, since Objective Analysis predicts that future computers will include a NAND memory layer that will cause DRAM growth to slow down in all computing systems, from PCs to mainframes,'' said Jim Handy, an analyst with Objective Analysis.

They are also getting into charge trapping earlier than most companies. We believe that charge trapping will become the standard process for all flash at processes below 25nm. Charge trapping is the simplest way to overcome the difficulties caused by the shrinking number of electrons per gate as processes shrink,'' Handy said.

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To: Bruno Cipolla who wrote (45520)9/2/2010 5:13:44 PM
From: clean86   of 55223
 
Thanks for that post Bruno.

I took the liberty of reposting it to the Apple thread to see what they thought of the news.

Regardless of the maker flash based players are now the standard in portables which is good for Sandisk in the end.

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To: Sam who wrote (45518)9/2/2010 5:17:59 PM
From: Bargain Hunter   of 55223
 
The price ranges for some items in that table are quite wide:

Daily Daily Session Session Session Session
Mode Item High Low High Low Ave Change
64Gb 8Gx8 MLC 16.00 9.60 16.00 9.60 12.40 (-0.60%)
32Gb 4Gx8 MLC 10.20 4.27 10.20 4.27 6.48 (-0.55%)
16Gb 2Gx8 MLC 5.60 3.60 5.60 3.60 4.19 (-0.28%)
8Gb 1Gx8 MLC 3.80 3.64 3.78 3.64 3.72 (-0.42%)

The high price for 32Gb 4Gx8 MLC is more than double the low. Do we think that it represents real price swings? Or maybe the low price is for larger quantities? Or are there multiple types of chip within that category that sell for different prices?

Maybe the price can vary by manufacturer or by process. Would you be prepared to pay different amounts for (say) Hynix vs Micron? Or for 3X nm vs 2X nm?

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To: FUBHO who wrote (45521)9/2/2010 8:07:22 PM
From: Sam   of 55223
 
Eli was asked about this in the last CC (I'm pretty sure it was then, anyway--it definitely was fairly recently), and said something like, it was his understanding that they were going after low density, niche markets and would not be competing with Sandisk.

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To: Bargain Hunter who wrote (45524)9/2/2010 8:11:12 PM
From: Howard R. Hansen   of 55223
 

Maybe the price can vary by manufacturer or by process. Would you be prepared to pay different amounts for (say) Hynix vs Micron? Or for 3X nm vs 2X nm?

Or the speed grade could make a big difference in the price. NAND used for video storage in cameras commands a premium price.

Howard

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To: Bargain Hunter who wrote (45524)9/2/2010 8:14:57 PM
From: Sam1 Recommendation   of 55223
 
BH, those prices are all for MLC. TLC prices are different.

Yes, the ranges are incredibly wide, and we don't have a clue who is selling what to whom for how much and at what quantity at the different price levels.

Which means, IMHO, that these tables that we all pay so much attention to aren't really all that useful, except perhaps in some very broad, general way that may indicate a trend if the prices keep going in one direction for all sizes. BUT, as I have pointed out to Slacker several times in the past, the slope of the lines for the High Price has been quite different from the slope of the line for the Low Price (and, consequently, the Average Price as well, since the Low Price is so much lower than the High Price). The High Price has been stable to up, while the Low Price has been falling.
Cf:
Message 26792068

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To: Sam who wrote (45525)9/2/2010 8:16:36 PM
From: FUBHO   of 55223
 
RE:it was his understanding that they were going after low density, niche markets and would not be competing with Sandisk.

That appears to be exactly right from the articles.

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To: FUBHO who wrote (45528)9/2/2010 8:27:48 PM
From: Sam   of 55223
 
Put this in the FWIW column, although I've read some of Gujavarty's work in the past, and IMHO it has been pretty solid. But I've seen interviews in the WST that were totally off base, with the interviewee basically just talking his book.

Deutsche Bank Senior Analyst Sees NAND Flash As Having Greatest Potential; SanDisk Memory (SNDK) A Buy-Rated Stock
On Friday August 27, 2010, 12:25 pm EDT

67 WALL STREET, New York - August 27, 2010 - The Wall Street Transcript has just published its Semiconductors Report offering a timely review of the sector to serious investors and industry executives. This Special feature contains expert industry commentary through in-depth interviews with public company CEOs, Equity Analysts and Money Managers. The full issue is available by calling (212) 952-7433 or via The Wall Street Transcript Online.

Topics covered: Inventory Replenishment and Corporate Upgrade Cycles - Smartphones As Major Trend - Secular Shift To Mobility

Companies include: AMD (AMD); ARM Holdings (ARMH); AT&T (T); Altera (ALTR); Apple (AAPL); Atheros (ATHR); Atmel (ATML); Best Buy (BBY); Broadcom (BRCM); and many more.

In the following brief excerpt from the Semiconductor Special Report, expert analysts discuss the outlook for the sector and for investors.

Bob Gujavarty joined Deutsche Bank AG in July 2005. Prior to joining DB, he spent six years working at Intel Corp., where he held a variety of roles, including positions in finance, manufacturing and marketing. Over the previous two years, Mr. Gujavarty led Intel's Xeon processor retail technical marketing efforts in China. He holds an MBA from the University of Texas at Austin and a B.S. from Carnegie Mellon University.

TWST: What about the PC side? Are we seeing similar trends there?

Mr. Gujavarty: The trajectory we find in PCs is interesting. We entered the year thinking something like low double digits. Then in April or so, we got pretty optimistic because of better-than-seasonal PC demand, and people started thinking a 20%-type PC unit growth year. Now we're back to somewhere in between, like 15% to 16% a year or so. I think that's a good number. We think 15% to 16% PC unit growth this year is a reasonable number, and we're actually somewhat positive that that growth will extend into next year. What's been interesting on the PC side, from our perspective, is that enterprise has surprised with its strength, while consumers surprised us a little bit with its weakness. It's a reverse from last year, where consumers held in better even though corporates didn't spend at all. And now we're having a bit of a reverse of that this year, with enterprise PCs doing better than consumer PCs.We should also talk about NAND. NAND is a great growth industry; we're pretty positive on it. We're expecting NAND revenues to grow 50% this year, after growing 20% last year. So that's a very good performance over two years. We expect NAND to be a $22 billion-revenue industry in 2010, and that's basically double from 2005, when it was about an $11 billion market. NAND is a great growth industry this year, and it's also a secular growth market in memory. We like the NAND market, and we think that that market is going to continue to grow very nicely even next year. It's early yet, but we're forecasting 10% growth for the NAND market next year.

TWST: What are the big drivers in the semiconductor space right now?

Mr. Gujavarty: Right now semis tend to be very heavily influenced by the macro economy. If you look at semiconductor industry growth rates, they don't correlate very well to absolute GDP, but they do correlate very highly to the rate of change of GDP. So in an accelerating GDP environment, semis tend to outperform, and in a decelerating GDP environment, semis tend to underperform. So they tend to get influenced by macroeconomic growth rates, and that's the historical precedent. In the second half of the year, there is some concern about slowing macroeconomic growth. It's weighing on the sector right now. But from our perspective, we think the key end markets, like PCs, like handsets, will have a pretty typical seasonal back half, maybe slightly below seasonal. But they'll do fine overall because the first half was so strong. For example, PC units were up 1% Q-on-Q in 2Q. That's very atypical; they tend to be down 2% to 3%. So above-seasonal first half, and we think a slightly below-seasonal second half for PCs is reasonable. But again, for the full year, we still think you get somewhere around 15% PC unit growth this year. In handsets it seems like we're going to have a typical second half, which is typically second-half-over-first-half 15%-type growth for the handset industry.

TWST: What about specific names? Who do you like right now and why?

Mr. Gujavarty: Within memory, we like SanDisk because we like NAND flash. We have a "buy" on SanDisk. Micron, we have a "hold" because we're a little worried about DRAM. Like I said, it's going to have a great year this year as a snapback, but looking a little further out into 2011, we're a little bit cautious, so we have a "hold" on that. In terms of PCs, we tend to like the PC cycle. We think this is a multiyear upgrade cycle in terms of 15% this year and another double-digit year next year. Intel is very well exposed to enterprise as well, so we have a "buy" on Intel. We have "holds" on AMD and NVIDIA because they tend to be a little bit more consumer exposed. So even though there is a theory about rising tide lifting all boats, we think that's a little less true this year because consumer PCs will weigh on NVIDIA and AMD, who have much higher exposure to the consumer side and less exposure to the enterprise side.

We do like Fairchild and ON Semiconductor; they do have varying levels of PC exposure, but we think they're relatively cheap stocks. And a 15%-PC-unit-growth year should be pretty good for those guys as well. Analog, which is a sector we haven't really talked about, is a little bit more broad based. Analog companies tend to not have high concentration in just one segment, like PCs or handsets; they are much more broadly exposed. They have exposure to industrial, military as well as PCs and handsets, and communication-like wireline and wireless networking. Analog companies tend be a little bit less volatile and less focused on a particular end market. They're a little bit more of a broader play on the macroeconomy and the macroeconomic conditions. In that space, we tend to like companies that have some kind of specific drivers, like Intersil (ISIL) because it's a faster-growing company than many of its analog peers, and we think that continues with a market share-taking theme. We like National Semiconductor (NSM) because we think they're going to be a share taker as well, and it has margins above the industry average.

The Wall Street Transcript is a unique service for investors and industry researchers - providing fresh commentary and insight through verbatim interviews with CEOs and research analysts. This Special issue is available by calling (212) 952-7433 or via The Wall Street Transcript Online .

The Wall Street Transcript does not endorse the views of any interviewees nor does it make stock recommendations

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To: Howard R. Hansen who wrote (45526)9/3/2010 12:41:23 AM
From: Bargain Hunter   of 55223
 
Maybe the price can vary by manufacturer or by process. Would you be prepared to pay different amounts for (say) Hynix vs Micron? Or for 3X nm vs 2X nm?

Or the speed grade could make a big difference in the price. NAND used for video storage in cameras commands a premium price.


No question that speed capability will affect price, but I would expect that to depend mostly on SLC vs MLC vs TLC and process node. Or do we think that within a given process node and number of bits per cell a manufacturer would create variants of the design with different speeds? That would presumably involve either using more area per storage cell or smaller ratios of cells to sensors to provide higher performance.

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To: Bargain Hunter who wrote (45530)9/3/2010 9:54:15 AM
From: Sam1 Recommendation   of 55223
 
Samsung raises 2010 smartphone sales target: report

1:32am EDT

SEOUL (Reuters) - Samsung Electronics Co Ltd (005930.KS: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), the world's No.2 handset maker, expects to sell up to 25 million smartphones this year, exceeding its earlier target, and aims to double shipments next year, media reports said on Friday.

JK Shin, head of Samsung's Mobile Communications division, told reporters at the IFA trade show in Berlin that its 2010 smartphone sales would be far higher than its original target of 18 million units, due to the popularity of its Android-based Galaxy S model, news provider EDaily said.

The report also quoted Shin as saying the company had targeted sales of 50 million units for next year.

"Our smartphone shipments will easily surpass 20 million units this year, thanks to strong sales of recently released Galaxy S... We expect the number could rise to as high as 25 million this year," Shin said.

Samsung, which had said earlier it would treble smartphone sales this year to 18 million units, in June unveiled Galaxy S, its answer to Apple's (AAPL.O: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) popular iPhone and its first smartphone sold globally through some 100 carriers, and sold more than 3 million sets.

A Samsung spokesperson in Berlin was not immediately available for comment.

"Galaxy S is definitely opening the smartphone sector for Samsung Mobile... It's overperforming our expectation," YH Lee, head of marketing at Samsung Mobile, told Reuters in Berlin on Thursday.

Samsung, a laggard in the booming smartphone market, does not plan to introduce new models to replace Galaxy S during the hot holiday season later this year, hoping for strong sales of the model to continue.

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