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To: paul ross who wrote (6825)	4/23/2004 7:12:22 PM
From: goldsheet	of 8009

.. and the week ends ....... 12/31/03 YTD Metal Last Week This Week Change Percent -------------------------------------------------------------- 1592.50 7.2% Aluminum 1782.00 1707.00 -75.00 -4.2% 2321.00 24.5% Copper 2939.00 2890.00 -49.00 -1.7% 739.50 -1.7% Lead 732.50 727.00 -5.50 -0.8% 16650.00 -25.3% Nickel 12720.00 12430.00 -290.00 -2.3% 6565.00 35.0% Tin 9120.00 8860.00 -260.00 -2.9% 1008.00 0.6% Zinc 1001.00 1014.50 13.50 1.3% -------------------------------------------------------------- 415.70 -4.9% Gold 401.00 395.30 -5.70 -1.4% 197.50 42.2% Palladium 313.75 280.85 -32.90 -10.5% 811.30 3.8% Platinum 918.00 842.50 -75.50 -8.2% 5.95 3.5% Silver 7.14 6.16 -0.98 -13.7% 108.84 -19.0% XAU Index 95.18 88.12 -7.06 -7.4% -------------------------------------------------------------- Base metals are quoted in $US per metric tonne Precious metals are quoted in $US per troy ounce

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To: gpowell who wrote (6821)	4/26/2004 12:43:17 PM
From: IngotWeTrust	of 8009

the flaw in your thinking is that money is somehow a metal disc of some size, shape, composition and standard weight. I have personally handled AND WORN Atocha "Spanish" MONEY from the 1700's Atocha reclaimed wreck for example. A friend of mine is one of the 1/20th owners of the wreck (bought/invested in Mel Fisher before Atocha was even found.) Carol & Gene=smart people, huh? Anyhow, it is amazing...the chainlinks in those big honking "gold ropes" are within .003 of a gram identical weight per each link. AMAZING accuracy for those days. Those pieces of individually money were soft enough to twist open by the human hand, remove however many were needed for the transaction, and then twist open the remaining link to reassemble the rope, usually worn around the neck or under the robe of both buyer and seller. *(worn around the neck, these 3 FOOT minimum length money ropes were heavy suckers and always gave me and Carol a headache before the evening was over when we were out socially.)* I've used wooden nickels as money. Diamonds are money, too. And what is wrong with governments "monopolizing" the metal disk=money biz? You should have been around when America was being settled. Every burg on the east coast made their own "money" b/c NOone wanted to use the english stuff in their pockets after fleeing the old country. Readup, ole boy...there's a whole LOT o'money out there that ain't metal disks and "monopolized by governments." gold_tutor

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To: IngotWeTrust who wrote (6827)	4/26/2004 4:03:37 PM
From: gpowell	of 8009

I am not sure how you can conclude that I think money consists of, "a metal disc of some size, shape, composition and standard weight", from my comments. Especially since included in my previous comments is the statement "anything can function as money." And what is wrong with governments "monopolizing" the metal disk=money biz? There is a public interest justification for a uniform standard for money, and, indeed, that is the excuse government uses when they outlaw private mints and the issue of private money substitutes. It is an arguable point that public welfare has increased through these government actions. However, one must consider that government has a strong incentive to monopolize the issue of money for reasons that have nothing to do with the public interest and these incentives have unquestionably resulted in much harm. My point in the upstream post was that commodity based money systems with private mints and privately issued money substitutes have worked quite well throughout history and that there is no necessary and compelling reason for governments to step in to correct a failure of the market (since none existed)– as was implied by the post I responded to.

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To: gpowell who wrote (6830)	4/26/2004 5:56:05 PM
From: IngotWeTrust	of 8009

pissy little dude, ain'tcha. You hang out on Residential Real Estate bubble thread and earlier spout textbook Austrian economic theory and showcase your ability to copy old textbooks from which you were indoctrinates,... and then... you NOW...post silver bubble #472-April 2004, show up finally on a precious metals thread...the most over supplied "precious metal" aka silver thread of all metallic choices for you to investigate... You slow or sum'pin? Now, you proceed to tell me that you don't type what you mean, or is it that you simply can't copy a textbook correctly about government monopolizing minting money???!!! You can't defend your position, hell, you can't even re-word it to make sense. You're simply stuck with your narrow views of what money truly is, and are practicing your stupidity in plain sight on the silver prices thread. Go back to Austria and go to school s'more...makes me no never mind. You wrote 4/23 on this very thread to Bob Johnson: <font color=slateblue> That governments have monopolized the minting of coins has nothing to do with the market failing to develop adequate commodity money. Through coercively monopolizing coinage, various governments throughout history have debased the currency in order to finance their own activities, primarily wars.</font> Then you added 4/26 on this very thread: #6828 <font color=slateblue>There is a public interest justification for a uniform standard for money, and, indeed, that is the excuse government uses when they outlaw private mints...</font> I nailed your ass on both false premises, called you on it and you gather up your dirty robes and try to hide what you can't edit. Would you like me to provide you with some names of some private mints in the USA that are busy making "hard money" and are most assuredly NOT outlawed? I'm calling your Austrian economic classroom ignorance bluff, dude.

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To: IngotWeTrust who wrote (6831)	4/27/2004 1:28:58 AM
From: gpowell	of 8009

That I speak of public interest justification for government control of the money supply does not imply that I agree with that justification - or that, in actual practice, government has done a better job than the free market. They have not. I was giving you an opportunity to present your case, but I guess your comprehension failed again. Regarding where I post, over the last year or so I have tended to respond exclusively to posts that contain errors. Further, if you had actually read or understood my posts on the Austrian thread, you would have observed that my treatise was not strictly Austrian, and was met with some objections by the moderator of that thread. BTW, if you want to school anyone on what money is you should start with your bud Bob. The rest of your ad hominem filled post is not worthy of response.

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To: gpowell who wrote (6832)	4/27/2004 10:19:56 AM
From: IngotWeTrust	of 8009

When you respond and correct" your blatant fallacious and didactic error "that the government has outlawed all private mints" which I know to be blatant error and offered to provide you a list of them, ... then the discussion can continue. I just pricked your bloated bubble, bub, and let the wind out of your sails. As far as attacking Bob Johnson, you'll learn better sooner or later, that is if you are capable of learning anything you haven't read out of a book, or blathered on the fly. And, Bob's not my "buddy"...we have no incestuous cousin relationship. He's a colleague and associate and a long time trusted entity, but sex with or without consent among our relatives has not occurred. Ad hominem attack? Check the mirror, prick.

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To: gpowell who wrote (6832)	4/27/2004 12:45:40 PM
From: goldsheet	of 8009

<BTW, if you want to school anyone on what money is you should start with your bud Bob> Easy amigo, please do not drag me into your attack on gold_tutor. I often disagree with her as much, if not more than anyone else. Silver is one of the few things we agree on, we both dislike it. As for money, I have probably read more on the subject than most, maybe more or less than you, but I am still allowed to come to different conclusions. Often the whole money debate is like religious dogma where one has to recite the exact "correct password" to be admitted into the "goldbug club" I have only been involved with gold/silver for 40 years, so I'm sure I have more to learn.

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To: IngotWeTrust who wrote (6833)	4/27/2004 2:01:09 PM
From: gpowell	of 8009

My reference to a monopoly mint was motivated by Bob’s statement “governments always end up being the ones to monetize precious metals” . Historically governments have not been the ones to monetize precious metals – the market place has developed many different commodity money standards entirely without government input. Bob’s statement is inaccurate and was probably motivated by the fact that all governments of any size at some point in their history have monopolized the minting process in order to generate income through coin debasement. Thus, my statement is a historical fact and served as a metaphor for the continuing government monopoly of the money supply. As of today, no government needs a monopoly on the minting of coins since no government is on a commodity standard. Indeed, now governments have a monopoly on the issuing of bank notes. Perhaps you would like to provide a list of “mints” that issue private bank notes.

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